Saturday, May 15, 2010

Which is a more powerful martial art, Shaolin Kung Fu or Jujitsu?

I want to start martial arts but i'm caught between these two which from what i've always studied about Japanese and Chinese history, are the most powerful martial arts from the country they come from, China= Kung Fu, Japan= Jujitsu. So which is more powerful?

Which is a more powerful martial art, Shaolin Kung Fu or Jujitsu?
It is not an easy comparison, however, if you train yourself in Shaolin like the temple disciples do, then in several years there would be no Jujitsu fighter who could take you down. Anyone who thinks that a Jujitsu master could take down a Shaolin Disciple Graduate (not even a Shaolin Master) doesn't know anything about Shaolin Kung Fu. Also, just for the record, all korean, vietnamese, japanese, and a few other asian countries' martial arts all originated in China. China is the original source for almost all asian cultures. Now, having said that, I don't mean to say you should totally overlook Jujitsu. Jujitsu is a very powerful art, but, also difficult to grasp. Especially the grappling aspect of it is not very easy to learn and hard to train in by yourself. Shaolin, however, is put together in stages of difficulty: the first forms and techniques are easy to learn and get harder as you progress, but are rarely complicated, even at the higher levels. My personal suggestion would be shaolin, but you might not have a studio nearby to that teaches it. You can learn a lot of shaolin from video, but this is really only successful if you have some previous martial arts experience, so you know how to glean the finer techniques from watching on video. Otherwise go with Jujitsu, because there are generally more Jujitsu schools in America (I don't knw where you are) than Shaolin.
Reply:They both are very powerful... I would say that Shaolin is more varied though and you could practice just that form all of your life and still never master everything.





Also Shaolin has elements of speed and power plus deflection and using the opponents energy against them so I feel that you would get the best of both worlds as well as learning a system that incorporates it's strength training into the style and teaches cool flips and kicks to try and impress your friends however they most likely won't be impressed but it's still fun none the less lol.





Personally I do Wing Chun which is very powerful in a soft way.
Reply:powerful in which way?


If you mean who would win in a one on one fight, the Jujitsu practicioner would win.


If you are looking for grace and appearance in an art, then go with the Shaolin.
Reply:hey! There are lots of diffrent styles under the term martial arts for example: Judo, Tae kwon do, boxing, javelin, wrestling, fencing, kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. Matrial art help you with combat, skills, fitness, self defense, self-cultivation (meditation), mental decipline, character development and building self-confedence. Martial art is the testing of forms or sparring. Kung-Fu train both internal and external. External training includes the hands, the eyes, the body and stances. Internal training includes the heart, the mind, the spirit and strength. Jujitsu emphasizes throws, locks, and striking and defensive techniques. It is a external style.





I am doing karate in other words a sort of martial arts. I'm part of shukokai. It depends on what you are into. . . If you just want to fight you should try Jujitsu. . .If you want to fight and learn more about styles and yourself you should try Kung Fu . . . If you wanna do martial arts you should try all styles and find the one that you like best. Good luck!!!
Reply:Well before I get started I want to comment on the person above me..





"It is not an easy comparison, however, if you train yourself in Shaolin like the temple disciples do, then in several years there would be no Jujitsu fighter who could take you down. Anyone who thinks that a Jujitsu master could take down a Shaolin Disciple Graduate (not even a Shaolin Master) doesn't know anything about Shaolin Kung Fu"





I take it you don't know much about Shaolin Kung Fu other than what you have read? Where would you think that they practice any kind of take down defense? We share a dojo with a Shaolin Kung Fu school, and those guys can do some incredible feats, they train hard and are damn impressive. However they are easily taken down, (especially with stances that are not great for sprawling a key in take down defense) and in sparring situations they get worked.





Nothing you practice by yourself with no sparring is going to be effective in fighting period.





Shoalin (provided you can find a quality school, and not a wanna be) is great for conditioning, flexibility, balance, and discipline. You will have a strong body, and a strong mind, which can help prepare you over the average joe.





However, without sparring or pressure testing, don't be surprised if your techniques aren't as effective as you thought when some guy is on top of you pummelling you.





The same really goes for classical Japanese Jujitsu, as many traditional schools do not do a tremendous amount of sparring. (Good quality schools also are hard to find). However their techniques are probably more effective because at some point you practice them on resisting opponents.





Good throwing techniques can be hard to master, but that is the point. You only get good at something through hard work.





However both arts are highly outdated, and have training principles that mystified and westernized.





Neither one is that powerful really.





JJ techniques were done while wearing or envisioned wearing armor. They use weaponry (that no longer is used) and principles developed for when you are armed. (Wrist escapes and the like, developed so that when someone grabbed your sword hand you were able to break away and deliver a strike) Most of their throws are thought of likewise, as though they are done in armor. Very small movements, great looking and seemingly effective. However with never really practicing it against a resisting opponent and finding out what is needed to actually throw someone.





Shaolin despite what some Asianophile nutriders would have you to believe is more spiritually based, than combat based. The movements and exercises are developed to help one better himself physically and spiritually. It spurned off other Kung Fu styles that began to become more combat oriented (against other Kung Fu) but that hasn't evolved for a long time.





Then it got mystified and westernized as some mysterious chi ball, "powerful" thing. When in fact there is no historic evidence of success in any war, ring, tournament, match, or cage in which Kung Fu reigned supreme. JJ was at least developed and tested in battle, be it ancient battle involving armor and swords, much different then hand to hand fighting today.





This is part of a mentality that a lot of Martial Artist get into Martial Arts for. They believe the hype of a particular style and are afraid to admit it's faults, or are duped like so much of the public thinking that Martial Arts are supernatural, or provide some preternatural ability. When in fact, a vast majority of them (especially in the US) aren't really that better at actual fighting than the average joe.





So to answer you question with a short concise answer.





I would say JJ, because it's derivitives (Judo, BJJ, Aikido, Karate, etc) has spurned way more success in battle, in fighting competetions, etc. Whereas there is no true show of force in any way of Shaolin or any of it's derivitives (the 5 bajillion styles of Kung Fu and Chinese Martial Arts) in any competetion, on any battle field, or in any fighting circle.





However one could argue that one is more spiritually sound and fit with Kung Fu, thereby making it more powerful, since it improves yourself and not necessarily concentrated on your fighting ability.





However I would argue all Martial Arts do that regardless, as does any time devoted to any physical activity in which you strive to succeed.





Sorry for the book, that is my take on things.





In response to MJR:





Seriously? You think Kung Fu is the only people who are able to rake eyes and jab throats? Do you have any idea what that actual effectiveness of that is? How many eyes have you raked or throats have you jabbed? Or the average Kung Fu practioner for that matter? Without jabbing throats and eyes on the regular against people who aren't letting you do so, you really are no better at it than anyone else.





Jujitsu (Japanese, not BJJ) has very few if any tournaments, whereas some of it's derivitives have plenty. Just for the record, I believe JJ to be fairly ineffective as it has not evolved, whereas BJJ, Judo, Karate, etc, all have evolved tremendously. (Key to any successful art)





Anyone can rake eyes or jab throats, Kung Fu doesn't make you more adept at it. The simple fact is on the street those moves will be ineffective and get you killed, and are hardly the fight stoppers people think them to be. Kicking shins and breaking them? So you are going to attack one of the largest, strongest, and thickest bones in your body, with the small bones in your foot and expect that the shin will break? God help you if you try to break the shin of damn near any Karateka who spends time doing body hardening and bone conditioning.





This is a myth that many arts try to claim, that they are too deadly on the street, too deadly to spar for fear of injury. However never practicing on any resisting opponent makes your technique worthless.





That is like someone who wants to be a race car driver never stepping behind the wheel. He is practicing forms of driving, working pedals and steering in the air, learning from an art that was developed for horse and buggy racing, and expecting that he is going to jump in a race car, and win a race. After all, the speeds he plans to drive at are too deadly on the road.





However someone who wants to race, jumps in a car and with some safety features, limited speeds, etc. Learns how others react, how the car handles under speed, etc. He will have a much better understanding than someone who has never even driven before, but mimics driving diligently.





That is just my take on the matter. I wouldn't place too much on what your own ideas about the origins of arts are. Japan was a very lawless country and arts were developed under constant warring with neighboring Shogunates and the like.





That is not to say China didn't have it's fair share of conflict, but comparing a peaceful era of Japan to an area of conflict with China amongst the peasantry are two different things.





Take it for what it is worth, but without sparring and hard contact, and training during adrenaline based situations such as matches, tournaments, fights. You won't truly have a technique in your arsenal or know how it works, on what body types it works, and the best way for you to employ it is, because you have done over and over against people trying to stop you from doing it.





Whole other conversation.





I invite you to check out the forums at www.bullshido.com, and have some discussion with various Martial Artists throughout the world.





Again, sorry for the book.
Reply:More powerful would depend on what your definiton of power is. With weapons, such as numchuk and staff, I would say Kung Fu, plus its a well rounded martial art which incorporates lots of kicks, puches and blocking. Jujitsu is from what I've seen excellent for holds, breaking out of holds and good for closer quarter fighting.


So either one would be good, more important is finding a school where the instructor is good and you're comfortable with. Because if you don't like the school you won't want to continue regardless of the style.
Reply:It depends on what you want. If you want to win tournaments, go with Jiu-jistu. If you want something that will keep you safe on the street, go with Kung-fu.





The reason for this is historical. Japan, the primogenitor of Jiu-Jitsu, has always been a homogenic, relatively peaceful society with little crime. Therefor their martial arts are focused less on pragmatic values and more on glory. Karate and Jiu-Jitsu are unique among the arts for being ritualized, and being easily adapted for use in competitions, because idle samurai (especially during the Tokugawa era) were continually testing themselves, and they needed to do so in a means that maximized intensity and minimalized injury.





China, however, is much more heterogeneous. Don't get into the whole 'slanty eyes' racism; China is as varied as any western country, and historically was always plagued by bandits and criminals and invaders. The Chinese learned Kung-fu to preserve their lives. Everytime a Chinese man took to the road, he faced the threat of highwaymen or bandits. Or the mongols were raiding over the hill, your dedication to Kung-fu was the determining whether you lived or died.





This is why there is only one rules set for Jiu-Jistu, but well over 300 styles of Kung-fu; the Japanese had enough time to write down the rules and make sure everyone was following them. In the tournament ring, or sparring, where there are boundaries, and rules against injury, jiu-jitsu fighters are in their zone. This is why Kung-fu fighters historically do terribly in tournaments. On the street, the Jiu-jistu fighter would be out of his zone, especially if the Kung-fu figher just raked his eye, or struck his shin and broke it, or jabbed him in the throat. It's dirty and underhanded, but if you are trying to preserve your life, then the only rule is to win.





So to say which one is more 'powerful' is deceptive, because it depends on what you want. If you want to dominate in tournaments, take Mixed Martial Arts. If you want something that you can use in a crowded bar, or against an intruder in your house, take Kung-fu.
Reply:Any Jujitsu fighter would destroy those Shaolin Kung Fu Sissy's. Wing Chun is for girls, by the way, it was designed for girls.
Reply:First of all cook c, that was a stupid answer. I would prefer Shaolin kung fu because I love the whole meditation stuff and the art. First of all I think it would be hard to put down a real Shaolin practicioner. I would say none of both is more powerful, if a Shaolin monk ffought a Jujitsu guy and lets say both are at the same level, the chances are 50-50. If the Jujitsu guy takes the Shaolin down guy, its over for the shaolin guy. But if the Shaolin guy performs one of his many deadly techniques on ground wether it is striking or takedown or espacially joint manipulating, the Jujitsu guy is on for some trouble.


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