Shaolin Monks outraged - Opinions?

I just was curious what people thought of the article posted below.





http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070831/od_u...

Shaolin Monks outraged - Opinions?
I agree with Opinionatedkitten and R.lee. This has nothing to do with Shaolin or Ninja, but more to do with Chinese and Japanese. Some of the old timers still can't forget WW2 and the japanese occupation. Kinda like the Jewish people and their memories of the holocaust. I remember my late Grandpa, who migrated from mainland China, blowing his top when my parents bought Japanese made appliances back when I was a kid, he also blew his top when we ate japanese food, told us chinese products were better so why patronize the japanese? The slightest thing japanese set him off due to his memories of the japanese occupation during World War 2. So outrage at a suggestion of the alleged defeat of such a recognizable chinese icon as the shaolin temple and by japanese ninjas at that wouldn't really surprise me.They just need to chill out and take these things with a grain of salt.
Reply:here is an idea:





why not get every alleged "ninjer" and every alleged "shaolin monk" and have them spar.





i guarantee there will never be a bigger collection and demonstration of worthless, unrealistic and unworkable techniques, examples of bad and unrealistic training and unskilled fighters in history.





"ninjitsu (aka: bujinkan)" and "shaolin" are two of the styles where the most fraud exists.





this is really funny.





EDIT: people also forget that this is the internet where people are supposed to be able to defame each other anonymously!





EDIT2: mike M if you think I'm a moron because I say that unrealistic "dead" training is bullcrap then I wonder who the moron is.





Or maybe I'm a moron because realistic trianing is really about repetitively doing pre-set "dance"/kata patterns against imaginary non resisting opponents.





Or maybe I'm a moron because I call bull on people's sacred cows and don't like to find out they are in a dance factory rather than a martial arts school and you prefer your dance factory to training against a fully resisting opponent.





I guess I'm a moron because I promote and practice training methods that work over ones that don't.





Or maybe I'm a moron because I call it like it is and you don't like me crapping on ninjitsu for its lack of good training practices and resisting opponents and your aishida kim fantasies and kata work. I strongly suggest you put away your tabi boots and start training with some fully resisting opponents.





The "truth" is that both ninjitsu/bujinkan and shaolin are bs styles because 99.9/100 times they are trained with so much bullshido its a joke, and im bieng VERY generous. at BEST the "ninjitsu" you are actually learning is not ninjitsu but karate and the teacher is just using the name to market to people.





You are the one that needs to find the truth. Its been hitting you in the face and still is you just prefer to run around in tabi-boots and play dress up rather than realize it.
Reply:My kung fu is better than your kung fu!!
Reply:Wow. These guys (the Shaolins) are way overreacting. Who cares if some cyber-moron claimed that a Japanese ninja beat a Shaolin monk? I hardly think it's an insult to the Shaolin temple and China as a whole. If anything, the Chinese oughta be more concerned with the high rates of female infanticide/trafficking and corruption within its government.





*edit* Opinionated Kitten, excellent answer! This is why I added you as a contact. :D





Naturally, Shaolin monks shouldn't be so upset over so trivial a charge. The most likely culprit would be the Chinese government. They *do* exercise heavy control over their press, and for some reason, are obsessed with presenting a good face to the Western world.


With all my interest in China and its culture, I should have known this. Duh!
Reply:MONKS LAWYERS LAWSUITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Everybody is getting into the "offended victim act"


Monks?More like buisness men worried about their tourist attraction revenue.What they do is more about wushu acrobatic garbage than fighting.


As for it being the shao lin there is dispute about where it actually was and in what province.


There are no monks in that tourist trap shao lin just performers who dress and act like monks.Everything they do is contrary to zen including this ridiculous "we demand an apology" bullshit
Reply:I suspect the Chinese government is the party that is truly concerned about this type of thing. I doubt the Shaolin monks themselves care very much. The way the article reports the sources, such as the Chinese press, and the way the Chinese government operates, I'm much more inclined to think that is the real source.


A number of issues are at work here. One is a growing hostility to Japan in certain quarters. Demonstrations against Japan are seldom stopped by government officials, who seem willing to allow sometimes violent demonstrations against Japan as a valve for the frustration of certain people in the Republic.


Another is an attempt to maintain the image of China throughout the world, especially as the Peking Olympics loom.


I'm also skeptical as to the official source of these comments, since they are not quoted in the article (something that would break rules of journalism in the west). Even if the article is correct in quoting one monk as saying this, it hardly speaks for the temple as a whole. It could very well be that this is just the opinion of one, or a few outraged officials who are overly sensitive about their image abroad. Sounds like a tempest in a glass of water to me.
Reply:Bluto you're still a moron, it was probably bluto trying to piss people off. He likes doing that, but when someone hits him with the truth he ignores it.
Reply:Has Ashida Kim been making wild claims again ? I think the monks have a right to be pissed off. I'm just surprised that they actually acknowledged something that stupid.
Reply:They deserve an apology! But what do they expect! It's the Internet and there's going to be people who talk SH!T ALL THE TIME! THEY SHOULD MOVE ON AND THINK ABOUT IT! Shaolin monks should help us with the troll problem and join our Marital arts section! Then people will help out those Shaolin Monks with there problems with False Claims! Welcome to the world wide web!
Reply:Bluto's a moron? Why what he suggested is a good thing, after all it was what sytles did traditionally, especially in various Kung Fu schools in China.





I say take THE BEST Shaolin Warrior monk and pit against THE BEST Ninja (Bujinkan, Ninpo, Ashida Kim, etc) in two fights.





First, an unnarmed fight till incapacitation (either knockout, verbal submission, or crippling injury)





Second a weapons based fight with protective gear.... wait who the hell am I kidding this is China...





No gear. (they have no problems killing people regardless for their communistic rule and oppressing the sh*t out of Tibet.





So 2 rounds... without weapons and with weapons.





See who wins... end of the story.





Then take the winning, and pit him unnarmed against a MMA fighter (yes dim mak, eye gouges allowed)





Then take the winner and place him against a kendo champ or dog brothers based Escrima master with Machetes, or a Gold medalist fencer.





Solve it the old fashioned way, with proof instead of rhetoric.





Any Martial Artist should be willing to test his technique against masters of other arts to better himself. If all you blowjobs nutriding on Bruce Lee's jock really knew about him, you would know that is the type of thing he encouraged.





Full out sparring./fighting against other styles to learn your weaknesses and their strengths and incorporate them into your own Jeet Kune Do.





If China is so pissed that their tourist trap Shaolin Temple's(which is what it has been reduced to) reputation, how bout instead of accepting an apology they laid down a challenge to produce a ninja capable of beating their best student/monk in unarmed combat.





Simple enough solution to me, hardly sounds retarded.





Retarded would be to be pissed about something someone on the internet is saying... that sounds retarded.





There are people make wild *** claims about things ALL the time on the Internet.





For that matter I guess I should be pissed about all those times that supposedly 19 year old hot girls sending me their pictures on the internet were fat slobs! I DEMAND A PUBLIC APOLOGY!





Screw an apology, put up or shut up for both parties. Both of them are full of horsecrap to begin with and full of frauds.





There a ton of fat white asianophile "Ninja Masters" who have never poisoned, killed, or drawn a sword to a living person in their life.





Plenty of "Shaolin Monks" who not only were never in the Shaolin Temple, or studied under someone who was a Shaolin Monk, and have no actual relation to true Shaolin Monks. (Who btw, weren't exactly legendary reknown asskickers anyway. They were just a monastary that also did Martial Arts. It isn't like they had some enormous victory against multiple Martial Artist or defended their monastary from attack against an army. Pretty sure the damn place has been burned down 3 or 4 times now.





What is left is watered down Chinese tourist spot that is not even tied to the Shaolin monastic order.





The few remaining TRUE Shaolin masters opened schools in the US and did sort of a commericalism thing, which focused on aspects away from the religious connotations.





In either case, there isn't a record of Shaolin Monks being bad *** fighting machines to begin with. Just Monks who devoted a lot of time and training to Martial Arts, but never to fighting.





Meaning yes, they can perform very impressive feats, they spend an abnormal amount of time doing physical training.





Does that make them better fighters? Not necessarily, a gymnast can perform amazing physical feats, that doesn't make him a great fighter.





Anyway, point being. Ninjas weren't great fighters, Shaolin Monks weren't reknowned fighters. All hype about them now is based purely due to Western dramatization, movies, and lore. There are a ton of people claiming that being studying it it somehow makes them more effective or deadly, when in truth, the only way to be deadly is to kill people regularly, and the only way to be a good fighter is to fight people regularly period.





Let both of these shams fight it out, then either one can compare where they stand in the epeen contest.





Or let's make it even better. Best Chinese Fighter period, vs. Best Japanese Fighter.





But being pissed about something said on the internet? Hardly means for a news article or for anyone to have a hubub. They should be more pissed about the masses of frauds claiming to be "Shaolin Masters" who make their art look like total crap. Those are should be who they are pissed at.





Hell I don't find it improbable that a Bujinkan student walked in to a "Shaolin" place and put a smack down on anyone who would challenge him, or vice versa.





Hell I would walk into any one of those dojos and openly challenge any of them, that is the way sh*t was done back in the day. Dojo challenges were common.





Hell I have walked into Kung Fu schools demaning some Gong Sau only to be told that they were "too deadly to fight" or something along those lines. Or "Fighting isn't what Martial Arts is about, we are above that..."





I am just talking some friendly, no ego driven sparring for the betterment of two people to learn their own weaknesses and strengths, and the weaknesses and strengths of your art and some other art in simulated combat. Don't see why that is so taboo, that is what true Martial Artist do. That is what Bruce Lee did, yet every panty waist non fighting "spirit of Martial Arts is this" has a damn Bruce Lee poster on their wall and spout out sh*t they thought he had said.





This is laughable to me at best...





Just my two cents.. sorry for the rant.
Reply:I saw the article, personally I think:





The Shaolin monks need to GROW UP!





They are acting like kids.
Reply:the shaolin temple was set up by the communist government as a tourist attraction since the old temple was destroyed and it is a cultural symbol. What they are really mad about is the way Japan has treated China in the past and this ninjas-beat-shaolin-monks thing is about PRC pride.
Reply:The monks are arrogant. They don't think a ninja can beat them. They need to think again because ninja doesn't fight fair, ninjas are trained to take people by surprise so I have no doubt that monks were defeat by ninjas. In a fair fight than maybe not, also ninjas have weapons.
Reply:i think they should beat this person up





the internet brings out the worst in people, some people go around saying **** just to piss people off and act TOTALLY different then they would in real life, over the internet. Maybe if the monks beat this person, people will be less likely to say **** over the internet and act differently over it.
Reply:Wow Cinthia, you've certainly poked a few people in the ribs with a short arnis! My own humble opinion is that 'real' shaolin monks would have more important things on their minds, the Chinese government has a lot to account for, and Hey guys; welcome to the world wide web: verbal sparring with no holds barred. I like Shienaran's answer best... less hype, more realistic, and coming from an informed background.