Friday, May 21, 2010

More about the original Five anscestors? (Not the books, the ones from Fukien)?

Can anyone surely and solidly with a base tell me more about the Fukien monks that survived? I've thought of asking the Shaolin Order(not the ones in Hunan, the ones in New York), but I don't want to hinder with questions unless no information can be aquired otherwise.


I want to know what the real truths and fictions are. Some say that there were eighteen but only the four monks and the nun survived, others say it was only them. Some say that the nun was later the mother of a woman named Wing Chun, who established and officially created the Wing Chun Kung Fu style. Some say a falling curtain spared the eighteen from the fire and allowed the five to escape, others say they hid and it was a miracle they made it out. Some say Ma Lingr was the traitor amoung them and he brought two men to set the Fukien Shaolin Temple to flames, and others that he brought an enitre army and faced them head-on. Please, if anyone knows the truths, please share. I am grateful for any information.

More about the original Five anscestors? (Not the books, the ones from Fukien)?
Here is one opinion of that history hope it helps


http://www.ironpalm.com/VPhistory.html


How to beat a BJJ black belt?

If your mostly better as a stand up fighter, and know some techniques such as joint locks and takedowns, but has little less experience on the ground like a BJJ black belt, how would you beat a BJJ black belt in a MMA rules fight? And Also, do you think a Shaolin Monk could beat somebody like a Gracie or a good BJJ black belt? im not saying that shaolin monks are the best, it is just because they are quick and can give some serious damage because they fight with alot of chi power and etc.

How to beat a BJJ black belt?
To defeat BJJ black belt, don't get on the ground. Train takedown defense, sprawl, get away and deliver punches. Don't kick, as this gives them a chance to unbalance you and take the fight to the ground. If you do end up on the ground, use a five point hold system. As long as you control three of the five main points of their body (Head, arm, arm, leg, leg), it is hard for them to improve position or gain a submission. Wrap up their head and arms with yours and work on improving your position instead. Once you're out of their guard, push off and stand back up to deliver punches again.





If you aren't as versed in ground defense/offense as they are, stay OUT of their realm. Just as they will continually try to stay out of punching range and try to take you down because they aren't versed in stand-up.





As for Shaolin monk, I'd say they have a fair chance since they also train chin-na which is chinese grappling, holds and takedowns included, as well as chokes and submissions. Any "pure" art is going to have a hard time against an MMA fighter, though. If a Kung Fu practicioner can stay off the ground long enough, they can pummel a BJJ student into the ground. But, likewise, is the BJJ student can put the Kung Fu student on the ground, he has a statistically higher chance of beating the opponent. That's how it works.





And as for the comment on Dim Mak, bone crushing, and people's spines wrapping around a punch, think clearly before making such wild claims. Kiai-do was once thought to be a genuine martial art, and then a Kiai master of some 20+ years got his *** kicked by an MMA fighter with about 2 years experience. The Kiai master showed his "abilities" off in a demonstration, punching thin air in front of *ahem* his own students. Magically, they fell down in pain. Then he tried the same BS on the MMA fighter only to find it didn't work. He ended up with a bloody nose, poor old guy. Dim Mak, or the "Death Touch", is a myth perpetrated by movies and shady martial artists, just like Kiai. Too much Bloodsport, not enough reality.
Reply:well go for the knees and do a takedown then locks on the ground doing ground and pound. thats your best bet. the shaolin monk would win because he does have speed and an all around fight style. but then again a monk wouldn't fight for any reason except to defend themselves.
Reply:I am not 100% sure if this would work but you know how a bjj person run towards your legs and try to take you down? Well, i think you should stay about 8 feet away from him or her, so that you'll have time to react their take downs and when the person start charging towards your legs, just knee them in the face!
Reply:with a gun from about 10 feet away
Reply:You grab a friend. A BJJ black belt has trouble beating up 2 thugs. Multiple opponent fighting is not its specialty.





I think most Shaolin monks don't understand English, so they'll have little knowledge of MMA rules. So, they'll win by eye gouging and biting. Shaolin trains teeth strong!
Reply:The masters of kung fu specializing in breaking legs, arms and Dim Mak. MMA is just for show and the big bucks. I have seen my kung fu master get attacked and he just punched the guy in the stomach. They guy was pretty big and was puking blood. My master told me that he felt the guy's spine wrap around his hand when he punched him. My master made it look effortless.
Reply:As someone who have done wrestling and kick boxing. I've also done judo and bjj. I'm currently training in all and boxing too.





I generally would try everthings to avoid bjj black belt.





The different between fight a strikers and bjj is, bjj guys usually doesn't consider fight over until they break your bones or choke you out. It's MUCH easier to get someone in a lock and break their bones than choking them out. So if you only got choke out, consider yourself lucky. The strikers would mostly just try to knock you out then leave.





However if I HAVE to fight one, I would try to keep my distance and to their side to make it harder for them to take me down. I would avoid clinch like plague. I would chops away at their legs and move away fast! If I end up in clinch, I would elbows the hell out of them and try to land on top then pulls away.





However I would have to say your chance of lasting more than a min with them if you aren't very experienced in grappling are very slim. Stand up wouldn't help too much either. It's very rare to hear of grappler being afraid to take a couple hard shots to get the strikers onto ground. They wouldn't mind take some hard blows just to get you on ground because in real fight, they would end up break something or choke you out.





Think about this, which would you rather to have happen, a couple nasty bruises, may lose a tooth, broken nose, or other similar things or would you perfer to have your limbs break into pieces? That's why it's very dangerous to fight them if you're not good at take down defense or grappling.





About knees to face while they try to take you down. That's VERY rare! Most of them are very aware of this and are used to it. In fact if you try, they probably would have even easier time to take you down because they would just grab your leg or push you off balance much easier.





As for Shaolin monk, they will not win. They're not use to the whole game. What look like a logically thing to do can easily get them submit.
Reply:to beat someone who has more experience in a specialist area, you DONT fight them in that area. so avoid fighting MMA rules or you may be doomed to fail.





the better fighter can be the one who can change his game to suit the situation, by not suiting the opponent. its easier to be a great fighter fighting your own style, but to beat other styles is the start of real proof.
Reply:work on your sprawl, and try to limit your kicks because a good grappler is just gonna catch your kick and take you down.
Reply:it's pretty hard to beat some one that has specialised in 1 field if you let them take you there.the rules restrict what a stand up fighter can do,no rules on the street is a completely different story.and also theres no referee?
Reply:If you want to beat a BJJ black belt you have to avoid the ground. However, people seem to be forgetting that by black belt level BJJ guys can do takedowns, in tournaments, they start standing.





However, without experience in some other kind of 'real' fighting, you're simply going to get taken down and submitted (and don't bother with street vs mat garbage argument -- a submission means you give up before they break the joint, but they don't HAVE to stop, they just agree to in tournaments. Position before submission means that it will be locked in before they start to break things, you aren't getting away).





You need to stand and strike and hope your striking is better. Of course most MMA fighters train striking. Nobody goes into MMA with just one skillset. So unless you have good level skills, you're not going to win.





It's been shown that the Shaolin Monks can't fight for real (ie: they can probably beat untrained people but not trained fighters). The reason is that they don't spar realistically so they can't use their many techniques in a real situation. If they trained their moves realisitically, maybe, but chi is not real, pressure points don't work, and if you use alive training, you will get beat by people who do.
Reply:To beat a BJJ black belt, you have to train diligently in takedown defense and try to make sure the fight doesn't hit the ground, if it does, don't go on the offensive, go solely defensive, even hugging to get the ref to stand it up.





As far as Shaolin monks. No, they could not beat any decent MMA fighter.
Reply:If your on the ground with them, just give up if they will allow you to. If not just sit back and wait for the pain unless you have some skills yourself.
Reply:Hope that you have longer reach than him!! Attack and evade!!
Reply:This is what I've been told about fighting since day one: Never box with a boxer, never kick with a kicker, and never grapple with a grappler. In other words, do something the other person doesn't know. Strike the grappler, but retract your hits quickly so they can't get a hold of them. Stay away from their close range.
Reply:Best bet is to focus on keeping at a good distance box him down, get quick effective kicks as so you wont leave a leg out there for him to catch, you will get taken down. If the fight goes to the ground get the hell up and do not ever expose your back while doing so.





Drills that cause you to get up, get out and create distance is what you want to focus on.


300 Shaolins Monks vs. 300 Spartans?

Seeing the previews of this new movie 300 makes me obsess over how badass the Spartans were. But Shaolin monks are like some of the best fighters in history also, and I think they might have more fighting skill. SO THE BIG QUESTION?? WHO WOULD WIN 300 SHAOLIN MONKS OR 300 SPARTANS?????

300 Shaolins Monks vs. 300 Spartans?
monks
Reply:i think the spartans would win, man that would be a sweet-*** fight Report It

Reply:let's not forget that shaolin monks practises qi-gong (i.e. a breathing technique that makes the body so invulnerable that any spear or sword wont penetrate the body) ^^ Report It

Reply:its not a spear but spears and if they are so invulnerable how come they aint rich. Report It

Reply:depends on which Spartans Ur talking about cause in the book series halo the amour clad fighters are also called Spartans contrasting to the Greek Spartans ,i think the monks would win because in the marital arts u r tough weapons defense so even in close range the monks would have an advantage Report It

Reply:no i think the spartans would win because of their weaponry, monks use their body and i dont think they can survive with their head skewered with a spear Report It

Reply:Spartan tactics favored large assaults. If it were a large scale battle, then the Spartans would take it. If the monks were smart enough to realize that and split the Spartan forces, then they would take the day.
Reply:I reckon it would depend on which of them was defending. The defenders would win. A straight up fight between to two... probably Spartans as the monks don`t go to war.


Of course 150 samurais would kick both there butts!
Reply:its obviously 300 spartans.........they trained for war........with weapons and armor........





the Shaolin monks did not like to see weapons, and ive never heard of any wearing armor.........plus they train to better themselves, not for widespread war.........
Reply:It depends. Shaolin study martial arts, they didn't invent anything! The farther back in time you go, they less the Shaolins know. I think going back 200 or 300 hundred years, the Shaolin would be easily much weaker, knowledge wise, than they are today. Then I'd give it to the Spartans as long as the Shaolin didn't use gunpowder.

lilycare

In so California, are there any martial arts studios that train in "Bagua"?

don't know much about it myself. i've heard it's a really aggressive art that originally branched off from Shaolin. supposedly its almost as ancient as Shaolin...

In so California, are there any martial arts studios that train in "Bagua"?
There are you should google this and see what come up here in Cali, also you may want to check some of the links within my site especially the WW_WCKF site cause one of the members is a Bagua Xiang Master. So good luck there are many schools to choose from.





peace,





lr





http://www.pacificwingchunassociation.co...
Reply:Baguazhang (also spelled, Pakua Chang)....has absolutely nothing to do with the Sui-Lum (Shaolin) systems.





The majority of the internal Chinese systems came from the Wudan mountain region....all except Xingyiquan, which came from Muslim Chinese.





Now, California and Bagua....I guarantee you will find Gwoons around the state with which to train Bagua. There is a MASSIVE amount of Chinese living within California that you'd likely trip over a Bagua studio accidently.





Just do a 'net search man, I'm sure you'll come across something.


Is this video real? how come no one else does this?

in youtube type in shaolin kung fu vs. karate. Scroll down until you find "VERY RARE FIGHT SHAOLIN KUNG FU VS. KARATE". are they masters? are they the only capable of doing this?tnx

Is this video real? how come no one else does this?
yeah.





these guys are, old old Old school. They are not masters. Even if they were masters. It still wouldn't look that different from the video.





That's how the Chinese people fight fought back in the day. and i guess they still do do it.





Bruce lee proved that their fighting style is old school and it doesn't work. Its more of an, art form, than practical fighting.
Reply:yes
Reply:Those guys are AWFUL!





Try blocks a real kicks like that, you'll mess your arms up badly. They keep move backward which is a big no no! What if those guy got stuck against rope/wall/cage/etc...? Neither of those guys bother to use their hands, knees, or grappling.





I wouldn't study under any of those guys.





Edit: beside that, I rewatch the video and the "karate" guy doesn't even look like a true karate guy at all. Karateka use their hands much more than their legs. yet this guy seems to rely 100% on his legs.
Reply:This is sparring, not fighting. There is a difference. Yes, Bruce Lee showed that the methods used in traditional martial arts where not efficient for actual street combat. However, those methods had been used centuries before Bruce was born. Even the great Bruce Lee gave in to his traditional ways for his movies. He did plenty of flying kicks that he would never endorse in his own dojo. These techniques look flashy, and in sparring, where judges are scoring you and your life isn't in danger, these techniques look cool and get the audiance to cheer.





Season's Beatings!

flower

Kung-Fu Movie Classics -- where do I start?

After reading The RZA's "The Wu-Tang" manual, I'm starting to get into kung-fu movies. But what are some kung-fu flicks/dvd's that you recommend as a foundation/starting point? I don't know where to start. I'm definitely looking for the movies "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin" and "Shaolin and Wu-Tang" though.





I'm particularly referring to the Shaolin movies that influenced the rap group "Wu-Tang Clan." I'm guessing those are from the 70's and 80's. I own Enter The Dragon with Bruce Lee, and that's it. The other ones I own are newer movies, like Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and House of Flying Daggers... I liked Kill Bill 1 %26amp; 2, although it's an American kung-fu movie, I thought it was still good.

Kung-Fu Movie Classics -- where do I start?
The ones that you mentioned and I really recommend any of Bruce Lee's movies(Enter the Dragon, Fists of Fury, The Chinese Connection)The Drunken Master(the original where Jackie Chan is the young student a must have!), Master of the Flying Guillotine, The Five Deadly Venoms, Shaolin Temple, Crazy Shaolin Disciples, Duel of the Iron Fists, Avenging Eagles, Fearless, Black Mask, Legend of Red Dragon just to name a few. I am a big martial arts fan. Funny ones are Kung Fu Hustle, and Rush Hour 2.
Reply:Try watching Shaolin Temple 1,2,3 by Jet Li
Reply:anything with Bruce Lee
Reply:There are so many - I don't even know where to start. I would have to say the starting Kung-Fu flicks for me was a Bruce Lee movie called "The Chinese Connection"





I am saying it all started with Bruce Lee because he was well known and basically all I knew of as a kid.





I do remember though - watching Kung Fu movies on Saturday or Sunday afternoons on channel 5 (NY) There are just so many. Check out Shogun Assasin or The 5 Deadly Venoms.
Reply:big trouble in little china
Reply:I hate to tell you this but it's kinda like one of those things that you kinda grow up with.





You can't just absorb it all up in a couple of weeks. The members of Wu Tang are from my generation, we were kids in the 70's and 80's and that's when Kung Fu theater came on Saturdays and Sundays.





It's something we grew up with. The suggestions that you were given are cool but it's really a generation thing!
Reply:Any of the Bruce Lee movies are good choices. Don't forget the television series Kung Fu with David Carradine either.





Lol, Big Trouble in Little China, what an awful suggestion but funny at the same time.
Reply:Any of jackie chan's drunken master movies would be good. Also his version of fist of fury. If you are looking for some modern ones try looking up tony Jaa's movies. They're not kung fu but Muay Thai, but still really good. Also go to Ripetv.com and look for a show called Kung Faux. They take old kung fu movies and dub in voices its real funny.
Reply:The big boss,then fist of fury,then sholin versus ninja.


PLEASE HELP ME WITH MY PROJECt !?

1) Where is the shaolin temple situated in china ?


2) Are there any other shaolin temples in the world besides China ?


3) What are the activities of Shaolin Temple(s) ?


4) How do I get there ?


5) Do they teach physical or spiritual things there ?

PLEASE HELP ME WITH MY PROJECt !?
1) there are many shaolin temples.


2) in most Asian mountains.


3) Inner and external training. Religion as well as self defense


4) You don't. They don't allow many new comers. I wish they did It would like to join there ranks and become the best martial artist i can. If you want to learn awesome kung fu the best place is in orange county in the US. Where as if you live in Canada Vancouver, Toronto, or Edmonton is where you would fine them. other than that i know of a few schools in Hong Kong and bunch in Thai land and Korea.


5)Yes both.
Reply:Listen to the '36 chambers of Death' By the Wu-Tang Clan





This will answer all your questions about Shaolin.
Reply:type in





shaolintemple.com